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Karl Hultland

Shipping Cost and toll fees.

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I got some unexpected money and was considering to buy one of the CX16 WASD keyboards. The $200 price is a bit steep but I can manage that. The main problem though is that I have to add $50 in taxes/toll and almost $70 in shipping bringing the total up to $320.

I might still order it but will have to think it over before committing especially as this has made me thinking that the CX16 itself will be almost unobtainable outside of the US unless they will get a EU warehouse for us living in Europe. 😞  I mean what use is the keyboard if I can't afford the rest of the computer. 🤔

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Similar dilemma for me.

I’m checking if the UPS delivery from WASD includes taxes & duty etc. as it looks like it might.

If not, then the cost of the WASD keyboard and the CX16 combined might be too much.

If it does include everything, then it will be about £211.00 for the WASD keyboard.

I think that would be reasonable.

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7 minutes ago, Fenner Machine said:

Similar dilemma for me.

I’m checking if the UPS delivery from WASD includes taxes & duty etc. as it looks like it might.

If not, then the cost of the WASD keyboard and the CX16 combined might be too much.

If it does include everything, then it will be about £211.00 for the WASD keyboard.

I think that would be reasonable.


Yeah, it is more reasonable, the computer itself I still hope will get a "warehouse" option inside the EU. 

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I think I just answered the question I asked WASD.

The UPS delivery cost can’t include all taxes etc. Adding an extra item only increases the delivery cost a tiny amount, no where near enough for import duty and VAT, unless the checkout screen is wrong.

That would make the WASD keyboard with green switches almost £260.00 if I’ve done my calculation correctly.

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Yeah, US prices are pre-consumption-tax ("sales tax" in the US rather than VAT or GST, which can not only vary by state but can also vary by county or city), so short of a friend visiting the US able to bring something in under their duty limit, there's no legal getting around bumping up the price by your country's VAT rate.

But having a reseller in the EU could well get shipping costs down dramatically. While it seems unlikely that the unit will be selling at a margin to allow a reseller to get THEIR operating margin from the difference between a wholesale and retail price, there IS a saving in handling costs in shipping off a batch order, so maybe there can be a modest discount to an EU reseller buying a batch, to reduce the difference between US retail price and EU retail price.

The UK is even trickier, because they require foreign sellers to collect UK customs and other taxes FOR the UK, and there is a charge for registering to be a UK tax collector on top of that, making it uneconomic for many small volume producers to sell into the UK. The best chance for a UK resident wanting to get their hands on some retro gear from the US might be a quick trip to Belfast, which is inside the EU customs union.

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I realize this may not come as good news but we have no plans to employ a warehouse outside of the USA. To do so would add to the unit price of every item sold outside the USA, which to some extent would come close to import duties that you would pay anyway.

This really started out as a hobby for David and keeping everything simple is the key to actually launching the product. If we add variables on top of variables, complexities, and the inevitable problems of warehouse staff not doing their jobs properly or other problems we have to go in and fix, and it just becomes futile.

We are also conscious that David in his very first video stated he wanted the computer to sell for absolute bottom dollar. If the retail price outside the USA has an inflated unit price due to incorporated warehouse and distributor cuts, we will likely get kickback and bad press from the community saying it is “too expensive” or we are penalizing people overseas by charging them more compared to Americans.

We are happy to offer international shipping options but at the moment it is expected that everything will ship directly from the USA only, as with many other products. Sorry if that is bad news but thank you for understanding the need to keep this project simple, straightforward, and at the lowest possible selling price.


Perifractic, X16 Visual Designer
http://youtube.com/perifractic

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In my country there is a postal service which delivers items from USA through their own USA address. Delivery time might be longer, but significantly cheaper. There might be similar services in other countries.

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I don’t mind paying the VAT and duty etc. (taxes fund essential services).

I’m just trying to justify the total cost to myself.

I suppose a WASD keyboard plus a Commander X16 including all fees would still be cheaper than most currently available graphics cards.

As international shipping options will be available, could there be an option to add a WASD X16 keyboard to reduce total shipping cost? Understandable if it’s a no.

Also, just thought about warranties. Would they apply outside the USA?

Or is it best to wait and see?

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I don’t mind paying the VAT and duty etc. (taxes fund essential services).

I’m just trying to justify the total cost to myself.

I suppose a WASD keyboard plus a Commander X16 including all fees would still be cheaper than most currently available graphics cards.

As international shipping options will be available, could there be an option to add a WASD X16 keyboard to reduce total shipping cost? Understandable if it’s a no.

Also, just thought about warranties. Would they apply outside the USA?

Or is it best to wait and see?


As the WASD isn’t made or shipped by us it would be tricky to include it as someone would need to pay for them to be shipped to us first. What I have done is implemented an option selector on the crowdfunding where you can opt to remove the mini keyboard for a small discount, if you already bought the deluxe. You will see this when the crowdfunding goes live a little later this year.

The only warranty that will be offered is what is required by local ordinances, because this is a hobbyist device and where there is tinkering there is unfortunately sometimes user damage. So as far as I know the only warranties we will offer are those required by US law for hobbyist devices.


Perifractic, X16 Visual Designer
http://youtube.com/perifractic
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I've dealt with modular analog synth makers in Germany, Portugal, and the UK for many years and if you want 'it' that bad, you have to pay the piper (shippers, settling Vat issues and tariffs not to mention PayPal and currency conversion costs).  Every party along the way uplifts and often you spend +25% or more just to acquire a product.

BUT, somebody will probably unofficially work out a way to ship a partial/kit board as a favor without the fancy case, etc.  I wouldn't call it a deliberate attempt to skirt tax authorities, just a friend helping out a friend on a one or two-off basis.  AT cases can be had locally for cheap, then on the next business trip to London (as an example), drag it onto the plane as a fancy piece of futuristic carry-on luggage (it will have detachable wheels and a strap?)

 

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We do not plan to sell the item without the case, just as Commodore didn’t. It will likely be sold in kit form as an option (as per FAQ), but will still come with a case and keyboard.

 

We have to meet the minimum order quantities for the case, keyboard, and PCB from the factories. If we make any of those items optional, we risk losing money on the project and the entire thing dying. For example we might order 1000 cases and pay for them, but only 200 people choose to buy them.

 

Also the cased product includes the box around the case. If we didn’t sell the case we would also need to develop bespoke packaging for just a PCB, which again adds to the overall project cost and complexity.

 

But simply, we are creating a complete computer, not selling just some parts.

 

I appreciate the initiative to look for ways around reducing the shipping, but as you also said, if it is an item that you really want then the middleman will need to be paid for that, just like shipping any other item internationally.

 

 

Perifractic, X16 Visual Designer

http://youtube.com/perifractic

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@Perifractic that’s understandable about any warranty. I thought that might be the case as it’s expected that users of the X16 will ‘tinker’ with it.

Good thinking to add an option to remove the mini keyboard for a small discount.

(Although I would personally probably still get the basic keyboard as a spare anyway).

Had a quick and helpful response to an Email I sent to WASD. They gave me all the information I needed in a simple, helpful and logical way.

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8 hours ago, Perifractic said:

We do not plan to sell the item without the case, just as Commodore didn’t. It will likely be sold in kit form as an option (as per FAQ), but will still come with a case and keyboard.

Oh yes.  Understood.  I was proposing kind individuals buy a full system state-side, pull and pack the board and ship to somebody in need (in UK or other Europe) as 'parts' or 'components'.  Then at a later date, attach a handle to the case, make believe it's a stylish European briefcase, and bring it onboard as carry-on during next business trip to deliver the rest.

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I just wonder if licensing the whole thing to a trustworthy party in Europe wouldn't be the more simple route. Just thinking about the Amstrad / Schneider deal back in the day (Amstrad never sold the CPC in germany, instead it was produced and sold as the Schneider CPC by Schneider AG) . Perrix already is a european company.

The problematic thing is of course the question who constitutes a trustworthy party and whether the european market is worth the hassle. 🙂 That would add a dimension to this endeavour that would probably complicate things too much, at least for the first model.

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The lawyer fees alone to do that would add more to the cost than any tax you would have to pay for an import. Nobodys doing Amstrad-level business in Europe with the X16 to get the needed volume.

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17 hours ago, Falken said:

I just wonder if licensing the whole thing to a trustworthy party in Europe wouldn't be the more simple route. Just thinking about the Amstrad / Schneider deal back in the day (Amstrad never sold the CPC in germany, instead it was produced and sold as the Schneider CPC by Schneider AG) . Perrix already is a european company.

The problematic thing is of course the question who constitutes a trustworthy party and whether the european market is worth the hassle. 🙂 That would add a dimension to this endeavour that would probably complicate things too much, at least for the first model.

What @SlithyMatt said ... this isn't the scale for licensing out. And independent of selling a batch of systems to a foreign vendor, it's premature to work out whether it makes sense to have a quantity price break ... first the crowdfunding has to be launched, then it has to succeed, then the first systems have to be shipped, and then the market has to be tested to see if it will support ongoing production.

It's a bit like planning on how to spend your Kentucky Derby winnings before the colt has been born.

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3 hours ago, BruceMcF said:

It's a bit like planning on how to spend your Kentucky Derby winnings before the colt has been born.

Not quite, it's more like musing about raising a whole line of race horses, found a dynasty and retiring with a business empire..

... once you have that colt and won the race of course. ;-)

Don't worry, I know this is not the time for so far fetched plans, that's why I added all those thoughts about the possible complications. Sorry if that wasn't specific enough, I'm just in the habit of thinking ahead and gauging possibilities.

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Well, I finally made a decision.

I bought one with Zealio 67g switches.

Don’t know total cost yet, but likely around £275.00

I need (sort of) a TKL keyboard, so thought why not get a really good one.

Should give me some motivation to do some work with my racing/driving game!

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On 2/20/2021 at 5:03 PM, Karl Hultland said:

I ... was considering to buy one of the CX16 WASD keyboards. The $200 price is a bit steep but ... The main problem though is that I have to add $50 in taxes/toll and almost $70 in shipping bringing the total up to $320.

I would not buy it at that price.  I had to really work myself up to get it at its base price, which I am still too timid to type onto the screen.  It's a very nice keyboard, but... really.

And the base keyboard which will ship with the X16 is looking ... not bad.  Good enough, even.

Maybe you have creative options now when it comes to keyboards.  Can you buy something nice and get custom PETSCII keycaps (at an affordable price)?  How about something nice now, and custom PETSCII keycaps later, thereby splitting the cost in two installments?  Sounds like a good way to go.

 

Edited by rje
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