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Moving to R39


Edmond D
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So for us mere mortals, the question becomes when to move from R38 to R39.

My stance would be when the software(games) I use(play) are R39 compliant, or that my need for an improvement to support the very limited development I'm doing (or hoping to do)  needs R39 functionality.

Given that the online emulator will remain at R38, perhaps jumping to R39 on my local machine would be relatively safe. While it would be nice to run both on one computer, I could put R38 on another machine as a solution.

The interesting item to watch is to see how fast and what gets ported to R39. I believe that will show how invested the community is in the X16.

Thoughts? 

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On 3/30/2022 at 9:51 AM, AndyMt said:

You can have both emulators on one machine. Just have separate directories.

Thanks for that bit.

The notion on how fast the existing software gets moved to R39 still stands. 

 

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On 3/30/2022 at 11:51 AM, AndyMt said:

You can have both emulators on one machine. Just have separate directories.

I posted a bash script to the downloads section a while back that makes running multiple installations very easy. I use it for r38, pre-r39, r39, and box16.

 

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cc65's gotoxy() works in r39 -- I tried that and then did a stdio printf().  In fact I also did a revers(1) and printf() and it printed reversed text.

So it's perhaps just the cputc() cputs() cprintf() that's wonky -- in other words, the text frame location thingy is off.

 

Edited by rje
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Posted (edited)
On 3/30/2022 at 3:37 PM, desertfish said:

 

Huh?

Perhaps I misread/misunderstood  this post in the thread - 

 

On 3/30/2022 at 1:02 AM, TomXP411 said:

I'm not sure... for now, Try It Now is R38. I'll see what we can do; we may be able to get separate emulators up for R39 and R39. That's down the road, though, and probably won't get done until summer.

 

I assume that with the conversion of the forum that updating the web emulator would take some time. It currently boots in R38.

 

Edited by Edmond D
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On 3/30/2022 at 5:04 PM, rje said:

cc65's gotoxy() works in r39 -- I tried that and then did a stdio printf().  In fact I also did a revers(1) and printf() and it printed reversed text.

So it's perhaps just the cputc() cputs() cprintf() that's wonky -- in other words, the text frame location thingy is off.

 

This makes sense to me. stdio.h functions should use the kernal for character IO, so they should continue to work as they did previously. conio.h functions are not "standard" but the idea is that they bypass operating system overhead and use a more direct path to the display (or from the keyboard). So the fact that video memory has moved around is not a problem other than the library now needs to catch up to the new standard.

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For prog8, I'm progressing through the recent r39 changes in the kernal routines and vera memory layout.  Expect a new major version release soon.

(note that prog8 has always been targeting r39 so the changes I have to make are fairly minor)

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On 3/30/2022 at 7:24 PM, Edmond D said:

I assume that with the conversion of the forum that updating the web emulator would take some time. It currently boots in R38.

Well, yeah, obviously the work to support R39 in "Try it Now" had to be done before it will work, and this is in the middle of transitioning the forum to a new system. But "Given that the online emulator will remain at R38" makes it sound like it's locked on R38. "Given that it will take some months for the online emulator to support R39" might be less confusing.

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On 3/31/2022 at 3:47 PM, BruceMcF said:

But "Given that the online emulator will remain at R38" makes it sound like it's locked on R38. "Given that it will take some months for the online emulator to support R39" might be less confusing.

Thanks for there rewording, appreciated. I'm not sure exactly if its a trivial matter to update the online emulator or not, or even where it falls in the queue of things to do. I did hear that the forum transitioning might take some time. 

Anyway, I'm happy to see that the forum, emulator and X16 codebase is moving "forward." As well, that there is a active and vibrant community here.

 

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On 3/31/2022 at 2:09 PM, Greg King said:

I have upgraded my commander-r39 branch to the new Kernal code.  I haven't pushed it to master yet because I have problems with file loading.  Programs that want to load dynamic drivers can't get them.  I haven't investigated it yet.

https://github.com/greg-king5/cc65/tree/commander-r39

I think I noticed this, too.  A PET font that I like to load, doesn't appear to... I think.  If there's a problem with file loading, then I've gotta wait as well, since I usually have LOTS of data files I heft into banked RAM.

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On 3/31/2022 at 9:39 PM, Edmond D said:

Thanks for there rewording, appreciated. I'm not sure exactly if its a trivial matter to update the online emulator or not, or even where it falls in the queue of things to do. I did hear that the forum transitioning might take some time. 

Anyway, I'm happy to see that the forum, emulator and X16 codebase is moving "forward." As well, that there is a active and vibrant community here.

 

I can only speak for the core web version , which is straightforward to update, just building the web target  and updating the hosted assets   (Eg https://sebastianvog.github.io/x16-emulator/x16emu.html )

In the past I provided the web emulator assets to Matt Grandis, who updated the forum . I don’t know details of the  forum integration/hosting  and thoughts  about temporary backward compatibility to the existing r38 software library. 
 

 

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On 4/1/2022 at 4:07 AM, SebastianVoges said:

I can only speak for the core web version , which is straightforward to update, just building the web target  and updating the hosted assets   (Eg https://sebastianvog.github.io/x16-emulator/x16emu.html )

In the past I provided the web emulator assets to Matt Grandis, who updated the forum . I don’t know details of the  forum integration/hosting  and thoughts  about temporary backward compatibility to the existing r38 software library. 

Thanks, @SebastianVoges. If you can send me the updated files, I can take it from there. 

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@SebastianVoges 

So after talking to the other guys on the admin team, we are going to move forward with just R39 on Try-It-Now. If you want to send me the the new assets, I'll update those as soon as I can. (This weekend is nearly 100% booked, so it will be early next week.)

Thanks

 

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On 4/1/2022 at 1:59 PM, TomXP411 said:

@SebastianVoges 

So after talking to the other guys on the admin team, we are going to move forward with just R39 on Try-It-Now. If you want to send me the the new assets, I'll update those as soon as I can. (This weekend is nearly 100% booked, so it will be early next week.)

Thanks

 

I will send them over before Monday , Cheers ! 

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/2/2022 at 4:42 PM, SebastianVoges said:

I will send them over before Monday , Cheers ! 

I would like to be able to build the web emulator my self, but am stuck  in something like dependency hell. Is there any chance you could show me your tool chain or maybe even guide me?

I am currently using Linux Mint as my development station, but can easily move to Windows if needed.

Thanks.

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I was able to build the web emulator successfully myself, however it didn't run because it stopped with a audio subsystem not initialized SDL error.

I'm on Manjaro Linux and only had to install emscripten as additional package, then type make wasm

After that it downloaded and built the dependencies automatically, generated a couple of web files including a big wasm file at the end. I also tried building the official r38 release that's on the forum and it had the same issue when actually launching the emulator. So it's an issue on my end, but the actual compilation is done without errors.  I know too little about emscripten to see where the problem lies.

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  • 1 month later...

I think this site should upgrade the web emulator to R41 now (since R39 had some bugs), but perhaps have R38 too for old programs that haven't been converted yet or doesn't work in both releases. One should be able to choose if a program should use R38 or R41, but all existing programs should have R38 in order not to break code.

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To do that, someone has to step up that can successfully rebuild the emulator to WASM

I tried it as you can read above but wasn't able with my very limited knowledge about this process, to actually get it working....

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On 6/9/2022 at 3:12 AM, mobluse said:

I think this site should upgrade the web emulator to R41 now (since R39 had some bugs), but perhaps have R38 too for old programs that haven't been converted yet or doesn't work in both releases. One should be able to choose if a program should use R38 or R41, but all existing programs should have R38 in order not to break code.

We're going to have to rebuild the framework for that for phpBB, since there's obviously no "phpBB Commander X16 emulator" plugin. When we do, we will have the ability to run different emulators for different downloads. So downloads that currently work in R38 will use the R38 emulator, and new uploads will use the latest emulator available at the time of upload. 

There are some things in the back end of how the current system works that I don't like and I feel are security risks (I'm not going to give specifics on an open forum), so there will be some changes to the process until we find a way to make the "try it now" more secure.

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