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Perifractic
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I notice there's a NumLock indicator LED on the keyboard, but no indication on the keycaps of any NumPad doubling (nor would I expect it, based on the behavior of the emulator). Is this just an extra LED that can't be hidden or reassigned?

Edited by SlithyMatt
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I notice there's a NumLock indicator LED on the keyboard, but no indication on the keycaps of any NumPad doubling (nor would I expect it, based on the behavior of the emulator). Is this just an extra LED that can't be hidden or reassigned?
Currently we don't have a use for that and the icon in the keyboard will either be removed or be a hollow square. Reassignment is unlikely logistically.
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9 hours ago, JohnGill said:

Ooh ring bound manuals! My goodness the prospect of flipping through those pages of retro joy shouldn't elicit such eager anticipation but oh boy it does!

Here's hoping Kevin and the team manages to get those bugs out of prototype board 2 soon!!

My thoughts exactly! 🙂

Apropos - are there any news regarding the prototype development?
It's been rather quiet in that thread here in the forum (but I don't know about the Facebook group).

Edited by Fnord42
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2 hours ago, Fnord42 said:

Apropos - are there any news regarding the prototype development?

 

It's been rather quiet in that thread here in the forum (but I don't know about the Facebook group).

I haven't seen anything since the response on FB about when the next "movie" (ie, video) would be out and the mention that they are still working on getting it booting up, followed, of course, by a series of "turn it off and turn it back on" jokes.

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We appreciate the excitement to know more. As per those boring ol' rules, please don't ask for updates as it puts unfair pressure on David and the team. Bear in mind you likely aren't the only one, including emails, Facebook posts that get removed, comments under videos, private messages, etc.

Updates will come every time there is something worth updating. When a day passes without an update, it means there is no major update and we are working behind the scenes.

Thanks for understanding.

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20 minutes ago, Perifractic said:

We appreciate the excitement to know more. As per those boring ol' rules, please don't ask for updates as it puts unfair pressure on David and the team. Bear in mind you likely aren't the only one, including emails, Facebook posts that get removed, comments under videos, private messages, etc.

Okay, point taken. I apologize.

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That looks amazing!

Ring bound manuals, never thought I would see one of those packaged with a computer ever again.

Also, I love seeing it as a horizontal "desktop" case, not a tower. Towers have been the standard for so long now, and while I like them for my modern hardware, there are many times I miss the classic desktop designs.

It's the simple things that often catch, and hold, my interest about a project. Things you don't even realize you miss or want until you see them.

Thanks for sharing! 😁

Edited by Strider
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On 10/5/2020 at 6:57 PM, Strider said:

Also, I love seeing it as a horizontal "desktop" case, not a tower. Towers have been the standard for so long now, and while I like them for my modern hardware, there are many times I miss the classic desktop designs.

Won't stop me from forcing the thing on edge.  But, yes, it might serve as a nice platform for a monitor?

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Won't stop me from forcing the thing on edge.  But, yes, it might serve as a nice platform for a monitor?

Correct, it's solid steel and intended to support a CRT. 

 

The feet will be loose in the box so you can choose the orientation though.

 

 

 

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On 10/4/2020 at 2:46 PM, SlithyMatt said:

I notice there's a NumLock indicator LED on the keyboard, but no indication on the keycaps of any NumPad doubling (nor would I expect it, based on the behavior of the emulator). Is this just an extra LED that can't be hidden or reassigned?

Don't forget that this is actually a PC keyboard with custom printed keycaps. If the original version of this keyboard had an embedded numpad, it's still there - even if it's not not obvious now with the Commander keycaps.

 

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On 10/4/2020 at 9:37 PM, Perifractic said:
On 10/4/2020 at 2:46 PM, SlithyMatt said:
I notice there's a NumLock indicator LED on the keyboard, but no indication on the keycaps of any NumPad doubling (nor would I expect it, based on the behavior of the emulator). Is this just an extra LED that can't be hidden or reassigned?

Currently we don't have a use for that and the icon in the keyboard will either be removed or be a hollow square. Reassignment is unlikely logistically.

On a PS/2 system, the host controls the LEDs, and I can think of various uses for those LEDs: Drive activity, Upper/Lower case mode, or online status indicators when using communication programs. It's just a matter of exposing the API via a KERNAL call (which hopefully already exists to set the Caps Lock light...)

 

 

 

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I can’t wait for the PDF version of the manual to be released. I want to get started learning how to program the computer. Had a look at older manuals for the C64 but given many of the changes and that I never had a Commodore C64 (I was a BBC boy!) I am starting from scratch anyway. Means I can start without any preconceptions :)

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On 11/20/2020 at 3:44 PM, TomXP411 said:

Don't forget that this is actually a PC keyboard with custom printed keycaps. If the original version of this keyboard had an embedded numpad, it's still there - even if it's not not obvious now with the Commander keycaps.

 

If this is handled internally by the keyboard's own logic, then activating NumLock for the embedded numpad will result in numpad keycodes being sent to the X16 — keycodes that are unsupported by the X16's PS/2 keyboard driver. Meaning that those keys (789UIOJKLM,.) would appear to the user to have become non-functional.

The standard for the AT and PS/2 keyboard protocol is that the keyboard just sends the keycode to the host, though. Then the host is responsible for what to do with that keycode. Since NumLock on a full-size keyboard is on the numpad, and as previously stated, the X16 doesn't support the numpad keys, then I'm fairly confident that the key won't do anything.

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12 hours ago, kelli217 said:

If this is handled internally by the keyboard's own logic, then activating NumLock for the embedded numpad will result in numpad keycodes being sent to the X16 — keycodes that are unsupported by the X16's PS/2 keyboard driver. Meaning that those keys (789UIOJKLM,.) would appear to the user to have become non-functional.

The standard for the AT and PS/2 keyboard protocol is that the keyboard just sends the keycode to the host, though. Then the host is responsible for what to do with that keycode. Since NumLock on a full-size keyboard is on the numpad, and as previously stated, the X16 doesn't support the numpad keys, then I'm fairly confident that the key won't do anything.

Yes, the logic is usually to send numbers when the numlock light is on. This can happen even if NumLock is activated by an external keyboard... this drove me nuts when I used to work on a laptop; I used to take a PS/2 numeric keypad with me, and I had to remember to turn off NumLock when I was done entering numbers, or I'd end up with the laptop's embedded numpad activated. (Although I have seen keyboards with a separate "embedded keypad lock" key. So the numlock LED is not universal, just the most common logic.)

Anyway, since the Commander never sends the command to turn the NumLock on, it's not an issue. 

So back to the actual hardware, rather than hypotheticals: the Periboard that the standard keyboard is based on does not appear to have embedded number keys, and the WASD keyboard also does not appear to have them (I can't find anything about that in the manual.) 

So all around, this appears to be a non-issue, except for a case where someone might write custom code to manipulate the keyboard LEDS and the keyboard in question has an embedded numeric pad.

 

 

Edited by TomXP411
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