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29 minutes ago, Strider said:

I'm seriously wondering if you could not just modify/paint the case to match whatever theme you want.

You can have custom keycaps made in various styles. I wish I knew if the keyboard was a single sheet of material or individual keys.

I don't even have one and already thinking how I can mod it. 😛

Any PS/2 keyboard should be adaptable. Sky is the limit really.

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4 hours ago, mrdoornbos said:

It's an educated guess, but baring some unusual turn of events, the demand for the X16 won't be in the millions. I understand "TheC64" demand since it's a nostalgia thing, but the X16 is in a middle ground kinda place, like the Maximite, only with a "please no FPGAs except that one we couldn't work around" philosophy.  Antiquated development techniques on a platform that doesn't carry that nostalgia. I have a hard time seeing a HUGE demand after the initial early adopters have them.

An interesting thought experiment!

I guesstimate that crowdfunding could get 9,430 backers at "full" price. 

Wide margin of error.  (Somewhere between the active users here and the total number of people in the Facebook group).

 

Interesting programs could help.

Edited by rje

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That Commodore 64 render looked so cool, as did the ZX Spectrum, I have always really liked the rainbow style logos used on so much tech back in the 80's. It's one reason I really like the X16's logo.

 

Many thanks on both counts! Speccy is definitely my favourite render!

0f4107b866e58ce9ae11064bacef03f0.jpg

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So when can we expect the all-in-one keyboard form-factor CX16? (Joking, joking... Unless of course lightning strikes and the crowdfunding goes completely, ridiculously bonkers, into the multiple millions. I'm expecting the CX16 to be worthwhile for everyone involved, but I'm not betting on winning the ultra-viral lottery.)

Well, as you know we have reasons for not doing that. But even if we wanted to, we couldn't fit the current motherboard in a keyboard case. It's more like an Apple ][.  

 

And you'd have nowhere to put the expansion cards. You know what a hassle that can be with the A500. Imagine having 4.

 

I firmly believe having the keyboard separate instead of shackled to the rest of the computer is just much more convenient and desk friendly too.

 

But never say never. IF (however unlikely) it did happen I'd guess it would be a phase 3 thing.

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I'm quite sure some people will build themselves all-in-one versions once it's available. If we're lucky, someone might even start selling them, who knows.

A special case that can hold the mainboard and a stripped WASD keyboard does not seem too far-fetched to me.

OTOH, I like the hackability that the regular case offers, so I'm not sure which version I'd prefer.

 

Correct. Where would you put the 4 expansion cards in a keyboard case?

 

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45 minutes ago, Perifractic said:

Well, as you know we have reasons for not doing that. But even if we wanted to, we couldn't fit the current motherboard in a keyboard case. It's more like an Apple ][. 

And you'd have nowhere to put the expansion cards. You know what a hassle that can be with the A500. Imagine having 4.

I firmly believe having the keyboard separate instead of shackled to the rest of the computer is just much more convenient and desk friendly too. emoji4.png

But never say never. IF (however unlikely) it did happen I'd guess it would be a phase 3 thing.

I'm just having fun by now, but I have a thought on how to fit the expansion cards into a keyboard form-factor:

image.png.cccf20ff76b8155748bd99fb5c1f516e.png

And this way the CX16 can also service as the mousepad! Truly an all-in-one design. 😛

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11 hours ago, Perifractic said:

 

Correct. Where would you put the 4 expansion cards in a keyboard case? emoji854.png

 

Yeah, that'd be a problem. Although I think you could use a ribbon cable to move at least one slot to the back or the side of the device and put an expansion card into a 3d printed case so it's like a user port cartridge.

But I agree that due to the size of the board it probably makes much more sense in one of the later stages.

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13 hours ago, rje said:

An interesting thought experiment!

I guesstimate that crowdfunding could get 9,430 backers at "full" price. 

Wide margin of error.  (Somewhere between the active users here and the total number of people in the Facebook group).

 

Interesting programs could help.

I smell an X16 program that stores a pool of our initial sales guesses. The winner gets a HUGE prize: bragging rights for making a wild guess!

 

 

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15 hours ago, rje said:

Interesting programs could help.

What kind of programs are you thinking of? I am in need of new programming ideas 😮 

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7 hours ago, JimmyDansbo said:

What kind of programs are you thinking of? I am in need of new programming ideas 😮 

Hah.  I largely just think about the kinds of games I could write.  Simulations, sensorimotor, strategy...

But libraries and utilities could also be nice.  Things like file editors (hex editors?), sound libraries or utilities, graphic utilities... 

Then there's always those banks of ROM waiting to be filled with a custom operating system.  Although that could be a hard sell.

 

Okay, here are the TYPES of games I think about:

* arcade-style games.  Direct competition against other players, including the computer, within a small arena (e.g. the screen).

* sandbox-like simulations.  Object and environmental interactions require you to plan and experiment.

* driving/flight simulations.  You're behind the controls of a thing going somewhere and doing something.

* strategy games.  Larger scale, perhaps emphasizing production and supply lines, sometimes directing many units.

* exploration/adventure games.  Known goals (more or less) in an unknown space (more or less), where you have to take calculated risks and find what you need to accomplish those goals.

Each of them probably has sensorimotor parts to them at varying levels.

 

Edited by rje
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On 11/5/2020 at 6:37 PM, Perifractic said:

I firmly believe having the keyboard separate instead of shackled to the rest of the computer is just much more convenient and desk friendly too. emoji4.png

I feel that way about keeping power supplies external (helps heat management and is "just much more convenient and desk friendly"), but you've decided on an internal one for the X16p for, if I recall correctly, nostalgia reasons.

For those same nostalgia reasons, I can see why people are interested in the possibility of a keyboard case.

 

On 11/5/2020 at 6:38 PM, Perifractic said:

Correct. Where would you put the 4 expansion cards in a keyboard case? emoji854.png

I had thought that the phase 3 design was already planned to have fewer expansion slots.... although I now can't find where that was written, so maybe I just jumped to that conclusion based on how small I was picturing it.   Phase 3 (X16e) is still far away, but given how strongly people are reacting to the idea of a keyboard case, you might revisit the idea (for phase 3 only, of course).  Just a thought.  (I'm looking at getting a ~p, so it' moot for me.)

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On 11/5/2020 at 5:38 PM, Perifractic said:

 

Correct. Where would you put the 4 expansion cards in a keyboard case? emoji854.png

 

This made me instantly think of Texas Instruments solution to that problem, the very large (and expensive) PEB.

While I honestly loved the TI and it's PEB back in the 80's (even though it wasn't the most powerful of computers), it was so awkward and I recall ours having to be setup on a folding table. Especially with its sideways daisy-chain style of expansion. But it did look so cool and futuristic! 😛

ti-peb.jpg.19a4fcaa1af9e96811df5b085b70b211.jpgti994asystem.JPG.430fd231ee4c9cc0fa79bb155a0640a5.JPGti994-sidecars.jpg.46f8e9f40079573ba147d947aded7e91.jpg

 

Edited by Strider
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This made me instantly think of Texas Instruments solution to that problem, the very large (and expensive) PEB.
While I honestly loved the TI and it's PEB back in the 80's (even though it wasn't the most powerful of computers), it was so awkward and I recall ours having to be setup on a folding table. Especially with is sideways daisy-chain style of expansion. But it did look so cool and futuristic!
ti-peb.jpg.19a4fcaa1af9e96811df5b085b70b211.jpgti994asystem.JPG.430fd231ee4c9cc0fa79bb155a0640a5.JPGti994-sidecars.jpg.46f8e9f40079573ba147d947aded7e91.jpg
 
Wow that's a keyboard case AND a desktop case!
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Honestly, I wish I had a non working one, that would make a great "sleeper" PC. Plenty of room for a full ITX system in there. 🙂

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I'm actually thinking that I would not want the keyboard that comes with the X16, even if it's "free" with purchase.

 

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2 minutes ago, rje said:

I'm actually thinking that I would not want the keyboard that comes with the X16, even if it's "free" with purchase.

 

Depends on the keyboard I suppose.

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I'm actually thinking that I would not want the keyboard that comes with the X16, even if it's "free" with purchase.
 
Ok I've noted to leave it out of the box when we ship yours.

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On 11/7/2020 at 11:57 AM, mrdoornbos said:

Depends on the keyboard I suppose.

Well, I bought this very nice X16 Cherry keyboard, see.  I suppose it can't hurt to have an extra, but still, I doubt I'd use it?

 

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So if you leave it out of the box will the price drop by the requisite amount ?

It makes the X16 a DIY job. Compile emulator and stick in Raspi400.  No, you can't plug expansion cards in it, but there aren't any and expansion cards don't sell that well for million selling home computers. All software is written on the emulator as cross dev (as almost no-one has an actual machine) and 99% of it will continue to be so (debugger, fast turnround, options other than Microsoft BASIC) so it not doing things that the hardware doesn't (bit level collision for example) are unlikely to matter.

As for numbers. There are about twice as many in the x16 group as in the Next group, which has sold 2,000 units, but for £200. No way is this going to be anywhere near that, it'll be closer to the Mega65 £1,000. And both of those machines have an established software base.

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Just now, paulscottrobson said:

So if you leave it out of the box will the price drop by the requisite amount ?

I expect they could well do that.

...  Of course,  specialized custom orders don't come for free,  so don't be shocked if the reduction in system cost and increase in handling charge offset rather precisely.

Regarding the Pi400, I could well buy one,  but as a carry with me PowerPoint / R programming lab computer running LibreOffice,  plus HDMI to VGA adapter, since the VGA is what is required at my University to access the classroom overhead projectors.

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My 400 should be here in a few days. Planning on a case mod to either recolor (purple/white not my thing), or transplant the psb into custom mechanical keyboard. Anyone know the pinout on the keyboard ribbon cable? I could trace it.

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So if you leave it out of the box will the price drop by the requisite amount ?

 

No, because it was a joke, hence the wink faces

 

In all seriousness, leaving the mini keyboard out wouldn't make much of a change to the price. The bulk of the cost is in the X16 itself.

 

But to be clear, we aren't giving granular options like that. The options will be clear and simple, which makes it easier for the consumer to choose and for us to logistically deliver items.

 

These options are likely to be:

 

X16P: Kit

X16P: Pre-built

(Both come with case and mini keyboard, no substitutions)

 

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Raspberry Pi 400 is a very nice product! It's actually not a new hardware, but it's like a ressurection of an oldschool computer-in-keyboard design.

I want it, but Raspberry does not send to my country now. And local resellers have UK kayboard layout only (I prefer US). Need to wait for things to settle.

The only thing I don't like is this pink color. I'm thinking of repanting it to something else when I get my unit. Perifractic's custom designs inspired me a lot!

@Perifractic, would you accept a request making PET chicklet style design? I love its red/blue/silver color scheme with Microgramma font.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e3/PET_Keyboard_improved.svg/2643px-PET_Keyboard_improved.svg.png

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