Modern Computing Chat

[SlithyMatt]

On 11/23/2021 at 12:53 AM, Tatwi said:

Give it another 5 years and all those kids who grew up using Chomebooks in school may well demand ChromeOS/Android laptops and desktops in their workplaces and homes. I am pretty sure that was Google's long game and it may well work for them.

Maybe! My kids all have their own Chromebooks, and used them at school. I don't think they used any Windows machine, unless they did something with the teacher's PC. And they don't use any of our Windows machines at home, only another Ubuntu laptop I set up for them with some games, including RetroPie. It's extremely likely that they will make it to high school without any significant Windows experience, and I'm very OK with that. If Windows has lost all relevance by then, I will be really OK with that, too!

[Cyber]

On 11/23/2021 at 4:41 PM, SlithyMatt said:

My kids all have their own Chromebooks, and used them at school. I don't think they used any Windows machine

What do they do on Chromebook? I mean besides surfing the net. And how do they accomplish it?

I never used Chromebook, and I heard contradictory feedbacks about its capabilities. Some users happy with it, some totally not.

[Scott Robison]

The school where I teach part time (Mountain West Montessori Academy) has Chromebooks in every classroom for the students to use. They seem to work relatively well, but I have not spent a lot of time with them directly, as I am issued a Windows laptop.

My python class students use a platform called "skillstruck.com" (which I am less than impressed with) to login, read lessons, and do assignments and quizzes. Chromebooks are perfectly adequate for those tasks, and given how tough kids can be on electronics, there is much less financial risk to them using Chromebooks than many other options.

Personally, I'd like to see Raspberry Pi systems (at least for a programming lab like this) that are not connected to a network, but they are not practical for any of the other classes who only use Chromebooks for a portion of their class work. I have to use them pretty much every day.

[SlithyMatt]

On 11/23/2021 at 11:28 PM, Cyber said:

What do they do on Chromebook?

We are homeschooling right now, so they are using it for schoolwork, which is all web-based, so everything is through Chrome. There are other apps they can install, but we have them on locked-down kids accounts that require parental permission to install anything.

[Strider]

I have never actually touched a Chromebook, I don't even use Chrome, except at work. I'm a Firefox guy. lol

I look at Windows as a "necessary evil" because no other platform can do everything I want it to do. So, I am stuck using it for most everything, and playing around on Linux, but not really being productive with it. Not as much as I am on Windows anyway. It sucks, but it is what it is.

[Tatwi]

On 11/23/2021 at 11:28 PM, Cyber said:

What do they do on Chromebook? I mean besides surfing the net. And how do they accomplish it?



I never used Chromebook, and I heard contradictory feedbacks about its capabilities. Some users happy with it, some totally not.

My kids mostly use them for watching shows on Netflix/Disney+ and listening to music on Spotify when they aren't doing their school work through Google Classroom (assignment/document tracking/review/submission) and Google Docs. However, there are many web based programs for content creation (graphics and video) and programming (such as Scratch and the Arduino web editor). Additionally, all Chromebooks from 2020 on can run most Android apps/games.

Years ago now I bought myself a Chromebook and I found it too limiting and cumbersome, but that's because I am an advanced Linux and Windows user who just needs to use a bunch of things that aren't in the scope of ChromeOS. A "Winbook" is more suited to my use case. That said, Chromebooks are fantastic for anything web related, including the use of both Google's and Microsoft's online office suits. For a normal person who isn't doing stuff like running virtual machines or playing Windows games, Chromebooks are totally fine as their only computer.

[Strider]

Story time!

So, I'm running an XFX RX 580 DD 8GB card in my system. It does what I need it to do, even though the 580 line has been out since 2017 and was technically a "refresh" of the 480 line . Had it about 2 years now. Was under $200 when I got it, before the silicon hit the fan and sky-rocked in price.

About a year ago a fan started making noise, and XFX kindly sent me a set of new fans and a shroud. So I tore the card apart and replaced it, and in the process I had to replace the thermal compound as well. Put it all back together. Worked great.

Fast forward to this past week, and I start putting it under heavy load for the first time in months. Temps are pushing 85C, got the fans cranked to 2300+ RPM, so it got loud and hot. Started under-volting it to drop the temps, got them down about 5 or 6 C to just under 80, but still too hot and loud. It was running at 65C to 70C max, under full sustained load.

So... tore it apart again. Thermal compound was hard...it dried out, I used my tried and true Arctic Silver 5. Dug out the tube, checked it out, it's barely still pliable, and I picked it up new a year ago when I replaced the fans. Guess I got a bad tube, or one that sat in a warehouse forever. So, I just got 2 tubes of Arctic MX4 recently, and I like it better anyway. Put that on there and...

65C under max sustained load at 1600'ish RPM. Cool and quiet! Even more so than it was originally!

On a side note, I did discover my card can  under-volt to 1050mV and remain 100% stable, at stock it runs at 1140mV under stage 7 (max) load. May see if I can get it under 1000mV, I know some cards can, seen some people saying they got them running at about 960mV.

Lower temps, lower RPM on  the fans, a win win out of an annoying situation!

Amazes me how much heat modern hardware produces sometimes, but the level of control they give you over it is so nice. ?

This is my card, love the look of it as well as the performance for the MSRP. NOT the current prices of hardware. These cards are going for $600 new right now. NOT worth it! lol

[martinot]

On 11/23/2021 at 6:20 AM, Tatwi said:

I present to you my laptop, a Lenovo 100e 81CY (Gen1) "educational Winbook" from 2018 that I bought a few years ago for a $260 CAD (from newegg.ca). 



Let's just take a moment to appreciate that I was able to buy a whole real computer for only $70 more than the retail price of the Windows 10 Pro license it came with.



Yeah, it came with Win10 Pro. And a 120GB EMMC storage drive that has enough space to actually use Windows Update and your own software! Jokes aside, this computer is incredible for its price. I like to think of it as the modern day ZX Spectum, cheap yet immensely relevant and useful. Here are its specs:

• 
  Quad core Intel Celeron N3450 CPU
  


• 
  4GB LPDDR4 2133MHz RAM
  


• 
  Intel 500 integrated GPU
  


• 
  120GB EMMC solid state storage
  


• 
  11.6" 1366x768 TN screen (visual quality sucks by modern standards)
  


• 
  Wifi and Bluetooth
  


• 
  Battery that lasts 11+ hours
  


• 
  Trackpad/mouse with actual buttons!
  


• 
  Keyboard with zero "deck flex"
  


• 
  An ABS plastic chassis that's built like a tank.
  


• 
  Webcam
  


• 
  Stereo speakers
  


• 
  HDMI, USB3, USB2, and 3.5mm headphone/mic, MicroSD slots/ports
  

CPU performance wise it's pretty well identical to my 95W Core2 Quad Q8200 desktop from 2008, which is amazing considering the N3450 is a 6W CPU. Of course the "graphics card" is very limited, but it's still able to play 2D games like Stardew Valley and older 3D games, as well as emulate every old computer up to a Pentium 75MHz (PCem) and every 8bit console. It also runs the full range of everyday Windows and Linux software without being painfully slow, though I don't own any of the Adobe or Sony software so I can't say how well that kind of photo and video editing software would run. Still, this modest and cheap computer can run thousands of genuinely useful programs/games on battery power, for hours at a time.



Obviously this isn't impressive when compared to the likes of a Macbook Pro, but I think we old computer enthusiasts can appreciate how amazing this machine is. It's way more capable than a top of the line laptop from even the early 2000s, yet it was literally the least expensive Windows laptop I could find. It's an incredible amount of computing power for something so small, portable, and inexpensive.



If my desktop were to disappear and I was left to compute only on this 100e for the rest of my life, I honestly would not have a problem finding fun and genuinely useful things to do with it every day. The 80's child and 90's teen in me would find this lowly "Winbook" a marvel of science fiction brought to life.



A walled garden, hardware crippled, Chromebook this is not, though Lenovo did built them in this same chassis. Nope, this computer that I use around the house and on trips for so many things is a fully fledged, inexpensive, computing platform like the days of yore, except better in almost every way; its manual sucks. ?

I think it is fantastic how much computer you can get today for so little money. Like you say it is something that even we that grew up with computers in the 80's probably never could image or dream of.

Last year I was awaiting my new MacBook Air M1, and needed a computer quickly before it could be delivered.

I got something similiar to your computer above, but a budget machine from HP instead. I was only a two core Celeron, but with a better IPS 14" 1080p anti glare display (fantastic quality for the price and low budget). It also came with an Office 365 license free for a year.

In total a fantastic deal for just around €200. Amazing! ?

Today I keep it in my trunk of my Tesla, and if I need to use a computer while waiting for charging (not very often) or for my family (most common), I just fetch my cheap HP portable and my car desk tray. Great as a spare computer and machine!

HP Notebook - 14s-dq0003no Product Specifications | HP® Customer Support



 

Product number	1E6Z4EA
Product name	HP Notebook - 14s-dq0003no
Microprocessor	Intel® Celeron® N4000 (1.1 GHz base frequency, up to 2.6 GHz burst frequency, 4 MB L2 cache, 2 cores)
Chipset	Intel® Integrated SoC
Memory, standard	4 GB DDR4-2400 SDRAM (1 x 4 GB)
Video graphics	Intel® UHD Graphics 600
Hard drive	64 GB eMMC
Optical drive	Optical drive not included
Display	35.6 cm (14") diagonal FHD IPS anti-glare micro-edge WLED-backlit, 250 nits, 45% NTSC (1920 x 1080)
Wireless connectivity	Realtek RTL8821CE 802.11b/g/n/ac (1x1) and Bluetooth® 4.2 Combo
Expansion slots	1 multi-format SD media card reader
External ports	1 USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-C™ (Data Transfer Only, 5 Gb/s signaling rate); 2 USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-A (Data Transfer Only); 1 AC smart pin; 1 HDMI 1.4b; 1 headphone/microphone combo
Minimum dimensions (W x D x H)	32.4 x 22.5 x 17.99 cm
Weight	1.46 kg
Power supply type	45 W Smart AC power adapter
Battery type	3-cell, 41 Wh Li-ion
Webcam	HP TrueVision HD Camera with integrated dual array digital microphone
Audio features	Dual speakers

 

[xanthrou]

Your wish came true, Strider.

[Tatwi]

On 9/23/2021 at 8:44 PM, Scott Robison said:

And the only reason many of us are able to enjoy the retro is because we have such fabulous modern hardware that can emulate the old stuff without breathing hard. Kind of makes me feel sorry for the car guys who can't exactly emulate the classic cars they'd love to own.

I would be so happy to own even the worst, slowest automatic Datsun 240z, because they just look so cool man! That or a late 70s Volvo station wagon. Heck, it would be neat to have my 1990 Isuzu Impulse XS back, rusty and gutted as it was (I intended to put a roll cage in it and wreck it over time in rally races, but then I realized I was poor and I traded it for repairs to our minivan).

Vehicles sure are money pits! QBASIC, on the other hand, I can fully enjoy on any old piece of junk computer. Definitely a point in favour of software related hobbies. That said, there's something fun, an ephemeral euphoria, about the experience of driving a vehicle that a person has some kind of connection to. That might be trundling along in a Model T on a lazy Sunday afternoon or whizzing down the road on a recumbent bicycle or maybe even crushing junkers with a tank; It doesn't really matter what the vehicle is, it's the... duality? the sense of being more than just a person inside a machine... and that's not an experience that can be delivered through computerization, emulation. You really just have to do it to experience it.

It is nice that the Boomers got to enjoy all this stuff, with their decent jobs and utterly astounding pay to cost of living ratios. 1946 to 1986, thems were the days to be a North American I tell ya! Peak of Humanity that was. Ah well.

So yeah computers, that thing I do because it's cheap and better than staring at the wall.