A couple of years ago, I bought factorio expecting a micro-management game. Instead, I got a game that makes even Dwarf Fortress look stupid easy (seriously). Beating the game even on the vanilla difficulty is nigh impossible.
The biggest problem I've had learning the game is the excessive amount of misinformation there is for it. Ratios don't line up with any calculator online, or even what the game tells you. If that's not bad enough, there's an excessive number of people uploading videos claiming they're playing on the highest difficulties, even though its obvious from their footage that they're actually playing below the vanilla settings. Tips videos are rare and are always misleading.
I just can't figure out the game. The game itself lies to you about its own numbers, and the internet is flooded with people spreading more disinformation. Its just utterly stupid.
I'm also not amused at how factorio is yet another one of those scam games. Steam has this really stupid return policy where you can't return a game if you've played it more than 4 hours or something like that. There's innumberable companies on their exploiting this by giving their games ultra long sessions (my first play-through of factorio took me 40 hours, seriously) or ultra long tutorials to make sure you go over the limit before you find out what you've bought. I even bought creeper world 3 once, expecting it to be like the free online versions. It was not, and by the time I found that out it was too late for me to get my money back. My steam library is flooded with games that are too damned hard for me, and I've long since gotten sick of spending money on products like that. I haven't bought anything from steam in years and never will again. They scammed me out of probably hundreds of dollars, and they refuse to do shit about it. Regarding factorio, it also doesn't help that I can find no info on who even made the game. I've gotten 5 different names, but when I searched for the name they each only came up with 1 hit (literally), which was the link where I found the name in the first place. Yeah, talk about being shady.
I just can't seem to give up this game. I don't know why. Guess I just really want it to be the game I wanted, even though its obviously not. Its not a management game, its an rts against an opponent that forever scales in difficulty while your stats are capped. Wtf?
Anyway, I'm trying to figure out a better defense strategy, but with all the misinformation surrounding this game I don't see how I could figure that out. I've since learned that the best strategies are actually things the community urges you NEVER do. Shows you how much they're worth. The strategies I have now aren't enough though, but I don't know how I could optimize things. Like I said, the community is plagued with misinformation, and even the game itself lies to you about its mechanics. I've even found that the math works differently between the game's various modes, so running tests in its sandbox version obviously does me no good.
I really need to just quit this stupid scam game from an obviously shady company forever. Like I said, I don't know why I keep trying to play this piece of disgusting trash. Guess I just want to try and beat the people who scammed me. I don't even enjoy the game, honestly. I've since realized that I just don't enjoy games where you put a huge amount of effort into something only for it to all blow up in your face. Factorio, winning is rare. I think I've only beaten the game two or three times out of dozens of tries. Also, the game is extremely repetivive. Build the same base over and over again just to see the stupid biters level it with impunity over and over. The only game that really stood out was that one game where the biters somehow teleported into the center of my base. Seriously. Because of the scale of my base, they were out of range of my turrets around the perimeter, allowing them to completely gut my base and render it completely unable to function. I had no resources anymore, and no way to get more since I couldn't leave the base with the biters so powerful, and having an empty inventory obviously wasn't going to help with that. I could do nothing but sit there and watch my ammo belts run out, and the biters finished everything off and proceeded to stay in the spawn area killing me over and over. Infinite lives my ass.
Honestly, I'm not even trying to beat this game, I'm trying to beat its bullshit lying scam-artist developers. Maybe its not healthy for me, and maybe its futile to try and learn a game with so many lying trolls in its community. What should I do here?
Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
I'm going to 100% disagree with you here... I've played Factorio all the way through on both "peaceful" and normal modes, and it works pretty much exactly as advertised.
There's no lying and no scamming - I've always had a positive experience with the game, and it has always worked exactly like I expected. Yes, it takes a little experimentation to get the production ratios right, but once you figure out the patterns for building certain parts, it's just a matter of duplicating the assembly lines for those parts to make bigger assembly lines for more advanced products.
As to defense: walls and overlapping fields of fire, along with moats, are the way to protect your base. If you can get up to where you're making explosives before you let the pollution get bad enough that the monsters have mutated too much, you can build moats and create kill zones that will prevent the monsters from entering your base.
Finally... the devs are not scammers. You don't get 130,000 positive reviews on Steam with a "scam" game.
There's no lying and no scamming - I've always had a positive experience with the game, and it has always worked exactly like I expected. Yes, it takes a little experimentation to get the production ratios right, but once you figure out the patterns for building certain parts, it's just a matter of duplicating the assembly lines for those parts to make bigger assembly lines for more advanced products.
As to defense: walls and overlapping fields of fire, along with moats, are the way to protect your base. If you can get up to where you're making explosives before you let the pollution get bad enough that the monsters have mutated too much, you can build moats and create kill zones that will prevent the monsters from entering your base.
Finally... the devs are not scammers. You don't get 130,000 positive reviews on Steam with a "scam" game.
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void_null
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
I have placed double rows of turrets in the past, but even those get overwhelmed. And what are you talking about a 'moat'? You can't place water in the game, or any sort of indestructible barrier. Then again, I just can't produce ammo fast enough to keep up. You would need literally 9 full RED belts of iron just to make a full red belt of red ammo. The only effective means I've found to protect myself is to put efficiency modules in everything so I don't generate pollution. That takes a lot of time and resources though, so its not practical for getting the stupid 8-hour achievement. I have on way of knowing of a better method though since the game lies about its own freaking math. And yes, I've looked at speedruns, but its obvious they're playing with a modded game. They run at 90 spm on one YELLOW belt of iron and copper, biters NEVER attack, and bots can place down assemblers before you get the tech to build what they're supposed to make (if you don't get the tech first, they just place down a blank assembler and you have to go over and manually set it to what you want afterwards). For my bases I normally run at 45 spm (mostly for ratios), and in the past I used red belts on everything. Switched to yellow the last few games, though it didn't help at all. I just can't keep up with the stinking biters, and part of that is that it takes me too damned long to build things. And no, I haven't found much use for bots. I've only ever run them out of my inventory, and even then I have to keep them disabled most of time while I'm trying to plan out stuff.
Also, its obvious that most people playing on 'ultra deathworlds' are playing at below average settings. The attacks they get look utterly pathetic to me. I've had a literal ocean of biters beating on my walls perpetually. I've even had enough to lag my game. 'Deathworld players' though can apparently get away with a single yellow belt of yellow ammo the entire game and never think about it. What the crap?
And yes, the developers lie, they gave NO HINT as to how merciless this game is. Like I've said, dwarf fortress is seriously a cakewalk in comparison, and that game literally has no win condition! When I pointed out how difficult their game was on their steam page, they threatened to sue me for defamation, seriously. Who would respect a company that threatens people for saying they're struggling with their game? Seriously.
Also, its obvious that most people playing on 'ultra deathworlds' are playing at below average settings. The attacks they get look utterly pathetic to me. I've had a literal ocean of biters beating on my walls perpetually. I've even had enough to lag my game. 'Deathworld players' though can apparently get away with a single yellow belt of yellow ammo the entire game and never think about it. What the crap?
And yes, the developers lie, they gave NO HINT as to how merciless this game is. Like I've said, dwarf fortress is seriously a cakewalk in comparison, and that game literally has no win condition! When I pointed out how difficult their game was on their steam page, they threatened to sue me for defamation, seriously. Who would respect a company that threatens people for saying they're struggling with their game? Seriously.
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
I don't know what to say - You seem to be playing the game wrong, or something, because I have not had the same experiences.
Maybe if it's too hard, try it on peaceful, where the Biters don't attack. Then you can focus on construction and building, rather than turning your base into a fortress.
Maybe if it's too hard, try it on peaceful, where the Biters don't attack. Then you can focus on construction and building, rather than turning your base into a fortress.
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void_null
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
I did play on peaceful once. It was good until my main bus ran into a biter nest, forcing me to level it just so I could progress. Shortly after that, my base was completely leveled by biters since I had no defenses and apparently they continue to evolve even on peaceful. Obviously, I never tried that again.
For defenses, I used to surround my base with walls and a line of turrets on the inside. I used to use laser turrets before they nerfed them into uselessness. One play-through I found that using efficiency modules in everything completely eliminated all attacks. I never even had to build a perimeter wall. I never tried that before because everyone I spoke to told to NOT use effeciency modules under ANY circumstance. Obviously, I don't trust online advice anymore. I had a similar problem with Neverwinter Nights 2 years and years ago. I was having problems with the game, and looked for advice. They kept telling me to do things that were actually self-destructive over and over. They probably did this at least half a dozen times before I realized that they were just exploiting my ignorance. This was despite them saying everyime 'that never works because of x, y, z, do this instead', over and over. Yeah, brilliant me.
I can technically beat the game now, but I need to do it in under 8 hours. The best time I've been able to get is 20. I also can't get that stupid 'on track like a pro' achievement. Most of my runs I just got the tech for the stupid train seconds before time was up. Last try I was making good progress, but biters swarmed in and leveled everything at the 20 minute mark, and then did the stereotypical corpse-camping me so I could never progress. Yeah, fun times. I just got of trying to get stupid achievements that are clearly impossible, and seeing all my hard work leveled time and time again no matter what I do. I had someone tell me once that those achievements were made before yellow and purple science even existed, which is why its impossible to get those achievements without basically turning cheats on. Who knows if that can be trusted. Of course, as I said before I can't find any evidence of people doing this on youtube. There are videos yeah, but they're doing obviously impossible things like running at 90 spm on a single belt each of copper and iron. I needed 4 RED belts to pull off the same thing!
And no, I have no blueprints. Well I do, but they're all for belt balancers. I change my design so frequently I just don't see the point in preserving anything. Last time I even re-did how I did my furnace lines, having two inputs on either side rather than one down the middle that everyone on youtube uses (no idea how I fell for that, doing that effectively cuts both the ore and coal belts in half, its no wonder why I could never keep all my furnaces burning at once). Lies and more lies, and it doesn't help that the game's own math doesn't add up. Even that stupid 'factorio calculator' lies. It claims for instance that you only need .6 of a yellow belt to fuel 9 grey assemblers making green circuits. Those things eat 2 cable per second. Since a full belt can only transport 15 per second, that means a single full belt can only support 7! Lies and more lies. Trying to do the math myself hasn't help either because the numbers the game gives you don't add up AT ALL. As I said, the math is even different between the different modes! I discovered this after finding out that miners are SLOWER in the real game than they were in some testing mode that seems to have been removed (it was one that used a checkered texture for the ground, yeah this was before the game was 'finished').
This game is nothing but a bunch of lies, just like the internet. I honestly question at times why I bother with it at all. Really the only reasons I go online anymore at all is to look for updates on the commander x16, which is now too expensive for me to afford, or to download mods for Skyrim, that's it. When I'm not playing Skyrim, there isn't really much of a reason for me to even turn this computer on. I've been thinking I need to just abandon computers for good and never look back. I'm sick of everything they've become, and becoming a certified programmer certainly hasn't improved my opinion of these things one bit. I've never even gotten a job in programming, because I don't want to have ANYTHING to do with the modern tech industry! Besides, my certificates are 4 years out of date now, and I can't afford to fix that. Not like anyone would want to hire a guy who got a degree 4 years ago and never did anything with it. Fml...
For defenses, I used to surround my base with walls and a line of turrets on the inside. I used to use laser turrets before they nerfed them into uselessness. One play-through I found that using efficiency modules in everything completely eliminated all attacks. I never even had to build a perimeter wall. I never tried that before because everyone I spoke to told to NOT use effeciency modules under ANY circumstance. Obviously, I don't trust online advice anymore. I had a similar problem with Neverwinter Nights 2 years and years ago. I was having problems with the game, and looked for advice. They kept telling me to do things that were actually self-destructive over and over. They probably did this at least half a dozen times before I realized that they were just exploiting my ignorance. This was despite them saying everyime 'that never works because of x, y, z, do this instead', over and over. Yeah, brilliant me.
I can technically beat the game now, but I need to do it in under 8 hours. The best time I've been able to get is 20. I also can't get that stupid 'on track like a pro' achievement. Most of my runs I just got the tech for the stupid train seconds before time was up. Last try I was making good progress, but biters swarmed in and leveled everything at the 20 minute mark, and then did the stereotypical corpse-camping me so I could never progress. Yeah, fun times. I just got of trying to get stupid achievements that are clearly impossible, and seeing all my hard work leveled time and time again no matter what I do. I had someone tell me once that those achievements were made before yellow and purple science even existed, which is why its impossible to get those achievements without basically turning cheats on. Who knows if that can be trusted. Of course, as I said before I can't find any evidence of people doing this on youtube. There are videos yeah, but they're doing obviously impossible things like running at 90 spm on a single belt each of copper and iron. I needed 4 RED belts to pull off the same thing!
And no, I have no blueprints. Well I do, but they're all for belt balancers. I change my design so frequently I just don't see the point in preserving anything. Last time I even re-did how I did my furnace lines, having two inputs on either side rather than one down the middle that everyone on youtube uses (no idea how I fell for that, doing that effectively cuts both the ore and coal belts in half, its no wonder why I could never keep all my furnaces burning at once). Lies and more lies, and it doesn't help that the game's own math doesn't add up. Even that stupid 'factorio calculator' lies. It claims for instance that you only need .6 of a yellow belt to fuel 9 grey assemblers making green circuits. Those things eat 2 cable per second. Since a full belt can only transport 15 per second, that means a single full belt can only support 7! Lies and more lies. Trying to do the math myself hasn't help either because the numbers the game gives you don't add up AT ALL. As I said, the math is even different between the different modes! I discovered this after finding out that miners are SLOWER in the real game than they were in some testing mode that seems to have been removed (it was one that used a checkered texture for the ground, yeah this was before the game was 'finished').
This game is nothing but a bunch of lies, just like the internet. I honestly question at times why I bother with it at all. Really the only reasons I go online anymore at all is to look for updates on the commander x16, which is now too expensive for me to afford, or to download mods for Skyrim, that's it. When I'm not playing Skyrim, there isn't really much of a reason for me to even turn this computer on. I've been thinking I need to just abandon computers for good and never look back. I'm sick of everything they've become, and becoming a certified programmer certainly hasn't improved my opinion of these things one bit. I've never even gotten a job in programming, because I don't want to have ANYTHING to do with the modern tech industry! Besides, my certificates are 4 years out of date now, and I can't afford to fix that. Not like anyone would want to hire a guy who got a degree 4 years ago and never did anything with it. Fml...
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
I played Factorio a lot.
At the very first, I thought as you did, that it was a mislabeled game.
What actually happened was I THOUGHT it was an "Open world base building game" where you could build a base forever... and to be fair, literally TONS of people on the internet are playing it that way, and you can... just not by the game's intent or using 'stock' settings. Of course, there are tons of people on the internet that think speedrunning "Mario Bros" or "DOOM" is the way to go.
But I quickly realized that it's a timed resource management game with an end game. You build a base, balancing between "building it fast" and "defending it" so you can build a rocket and get off the planet, and thus, "win."
Factorio IS hard. It's not a cake walk like a lot of modern games, Those enemies get brutal FAST and they will rip you to shreds if you dally. If you find yourself is an untenable position, you already took too long and need to restart. I found that the best way to get strong enough fast was to get to explosives as soon as possible. After that, focus on personal defense with the "grid equipment" system while defending yourself with rockets. And lots of turrets with basic ammo. So many turrets. Yeah, it was the "grid equipment" that really turned the tide for me. The shields are awesome.
I realize now that it was I who was wrong. Games need a beginning, a goal with a system of unknowns, constraints, and meters, and an end game. Games can't last forever. Factorio is a good game, you can't just glide through it.
At the very first, I thought as you did, that it was a mislabeled game.
What actually happened was I THOUGHT it was an "Open world base building game" where you could build a base forever... and to be fair, literally TONS of people on the internet are playing it that way, and you can... just not by the game's intent or using 'stock' settings. Of course, there are tons of people on the internet that think speedrunning "Mario Bros" or "DOOM" is the way to go.
But I quickly realized that it's a timed resource management game with an end game. You build a base, balancing between "building it fast" and "defending it" so you can build a rocket and get off the planet, and thus, "win."
Factorio IS hard. It's not a cake walk like a lot of modern games, Those enemies get brutal FAST and they will rip you to shreds if you dally. If you find yourself is an untenable position, you already took too long and need to restart. I found that the best way to get strong enough fast was to get to explosives as soon as possible. After that, focus on personal defense with the "grid equipment" system while defending yourself with rockets. And lots of turrets with basic ammo. So many turrets. Yeah, it was the "grid equipment" that really turned the tide for me. The shields are awesome.
I realize now that it was I who was wrong. Games need a beginning, a goal with a system of unknowns, constraints, and meters, and an end game. Games can't last forever. Factorio is a good game, you can't just glide through it.
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void_null
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
Alright then, what spm do you run at? Like I said, I normally run at 45 spm, but that's mainly for the sake of ratios. I've thought about going lower to give myself less to build, but I don't know how low I can go. What's the minimum spm needed to launch a rocket within 8 hours? What types of belts should I use? Stick to yellow, go red like I used to? What about assemblers? Should I be using blue in everything? Should I stick to stone furnaces over steel? What's the best way to defend your base? Turrets, efficiency modules, or nuclear plant? The second has proven the most effective to me, but takes a lot of time. I don't know about the third one, since I've rarely bothered to futz with it. Should I run my base on coal or solid fuel? I've always preferred the latter, because oil wells never run out, so once its setup I never have to worry about losing power again. Can I get away with skipping over grey science like I have? Should I bother with robots at all? Like I said, I've only ever run them out of my inventory, and I keep them disabled most of the time so I can ghost-plan without them placing things.
I don't know what to do. Youtube videos are misleading. They somehow run their base at twice the spm I do but with only 1 belt for everything (I need 4 each of copper and iron to run at 45 spm). And unlike me, they somehow NEVER get attacked. All I can find is obvious lies. I question whether I should be making a main bus like I do, because the idea never occurred to me until I saw it on youtube! The internet also mislead me about how to build my furnaces, and told me that efficiency modules were completely useless. Why should I trust the 'main bus' idea? I did see a 100% speedrun that didn't have a main bus, though I couldn't figure out how his spaghetti factory worked since the video never gave you a good look at it. Oh, and I've found barrels useful for fluids, since I have to use a cargo wagon to transport ammo to my colonies anyway. I have no way of knowing though what effect that has on throughput, but it works fine for me. Then again, I use three sets of barrels. There's always one set in the train, some at my main base being drained, and some at the colony being filled all while the train is in transit. Yeah, it takes a bit to get setup, but its been worth it as best as I can tell.
What should I be doing if I'm doing things wrong? On another note, I do tend to have issues keeping up with science (I research things far faster than I can build the infrastructure to use the new tech). Its why I've thought about going with a lower spm, like I said I have no idea what I would need to get the stupid 8 hour achievement. And no, I haven't gotten the 16 hour one either. I can't get less than 20 hours no matter what I do. If I'm going to need a whopping 10 furnace lines (2 for steel, 4 each for copper and iron), maybe I do need to have robots build my base for me. I don't know what to do. What should I be doing and prove to me it actually works, because I don't trust anyone with this stupid game anymore I've been misled so much.
I don't know what to do. Youtube videos are misleading. They somehow run their base at twice the spm I do but with only 1 belt for everything (I need 4 each of copper and iron to run at 45 spm). And unlike me, they somehow NEVER get attacked. All I can find is obvious lies. I question whether I should be making a main bus like I do, because the idea never occurred to me until I saw it on youtube! The internet also mislead me about how to build my furnaces, and told me that efficiency modules were completely useless. Why should I trust the 'main bus' idea? I did see a 100% speedrun that didn't have a main bus, though I couldn't figure out how his spaghetti factory worked since the video never gave you a good look at it. Oh, and I've found barrels useful for fluids, since I have to use a cargo wagon to transport ammo to my colonies anyway. I have no way of knowing though what effect that has on throughput, but it works fine for me. Then again, I use three sets of barrels. There's always one set in the train, some at my main base being drained, and some at the colony being filled all while the train is in transit. Yeah, it takes a bit to get setup, but its been worth it as best as I can tell.
What should I be doing if I'm doing things wrong? On another note, I do tend to have issues keeping up with science (I research things far faster than I can build the infrastructure to use the new tech). Its why I've thought about going with a lower spm, like I said I have no idea what I would need to get the stupid 8 hour achievement. And no, I haven't gotten the 16 hour one either. I can't get less than 20 hours no matter what I do. If I'm going to need a whopping 10 furnace lines (2 for steel, 4 each for copper and iron), maybe I do need to have robots build my base for me. I don't know what to do. What should I be doing and prove to me it actually works, because I don't trust anyone with this stupid game anymore I've been misled so much.
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
As to "spm" ... which I assume means "science per minute" Is that all science or just one? I never measured it. The easy science almost make themselves, but the later ones ... I can't imagine making very many of those in a minute.
Launch a rocket in 8 hours? Why? I know there's an achievement for that, but it seems impossible. I tried it to see if I could do it, but found that's it's ridiculous. You don't have to get every impossible achievement.
Upgrade stuff as you need to. No reason to overthink it. Oh, and trains. You must have trains. With signals.
The best way to defend your base is to not have to. For that, occasionally go out and wipe out all the spawns that are visible on the map. I kept a ring of solar powered radars around my base (5 solar cells and a radar... cheap and easy to slap up. Great early warning system.) , sure... they only work during the day, but that's good enough. I never bothered with walls unless they had point defense purpose, like at a weird choke points or something.
I found that the secret sauce was to be able to wipe out the enemy lairs in the time you reasonably have to build and launch a rocket, the best path I found for that was simple: first make explosives and rockets. Then build Power Suits and use the shield generators. To wipe out a spawn, bring 10 turrets, a couple thousand ammo, rockets and a flame thrower. Get close to the spawn but not in aggro range, slap down a row a walls with the turrets inside them, aggro the enemies and wipe them out. Run the enemies back to the turrets so they can do a lot of the damage.
At some point enemies start to spread so fast you can't go out and kill them anymore, and they have Large Worms with a 36 range acid spit and tons of Large Biters and Spitters... that's when you need the artillery. And your rocket better be nearly ready.
Launch a rocket in 8 hours? Why? I know there's an achievement for that, but it seems impossible. I tried it to see if I could do it, but found that's it's ridiculous. You don't have to get every impossible achievement.
Upgrade stuff as you need to. No reason to overthink it. Oh, and trains. You must have trains. With signals.
The best way to defend your base is to not have to. For that, occasionally go out and wipe out all the spawns that are visible on the map. I kept a ring of solar powered radars around my base (5 solar cells and a radar... cheap and easy to slap up. Great early warning system.) , sure... they only work during the day, but that's good enough. I never bothered with walls unless they had point defense purpose, like at a weird choke points or something.
I found that the secret sauce was to be able to wipe out the enemy lairs in the time you reasonably have to build and launch a rocket, the best path I found for that was simple: first make explosives and rockets. Then build Power Suits and use the shield generators. To wipe out a spawn, bring 10 turrets, a couple thousand ammo, rockets and a flame thrower. Get close to the spawn but not in aggro range, slap down a row a walls with the turrets inside them, aggro the enemies and wipe them out. Run the enemies back to the turrets so they can do a lot of the damage.
At some point enemies start to spread so fast you can't go out and kill them anymore, and they have Large Worms with a 36 range acid spit and tons of Large Biters and Spitters... that's when you need the artillery. And your rocket better be nearly ready.
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
Science Per Minute. I never heard of that as a metric.
I usually build as many labs as I can supply. My current map has 16, and they're kept fully by my science pipeline. Since science is really your base's main product, it makes sense to optimize your science production and consumption.
As to a main bus - I hit on that idea early on, and I always organize my base around that idea. I usually work from south to north, with ingots on the south bus, a second bus on the "equator" with manufactured parts, and a third bus on the north side of the base with the science materials. And buffer, buffer, buffer.
I seek to always produce slightly more parts than I consume, so that when I start a new production type, I have some surplus on materials. Nothing is worse than running out of a critical resource in the middle of production - especially if it's something like ammo, and your turrets run dry. =)
And this is something I periodically use to dump my backpack. It gets full of random junk, so the filter/recycling ring lets me sort things back into chests for use later.
I usually build as many labs as I can supply. My current map has 16, and they're kept fully by my science pipeline. Since science is really your base's main product, it makes sense to optimize your science production and consumption.
As to a main bus - I hit on that idea early on, and I always organize my base around that idea. I usually work from south to north, with ingots on the south bus, a second bus on the "equator" with manufactured parts, and a third bus on the north side of the base with the science materials. And buffer, buffer, buffer.
I seek to always produce slightly more parts than I consume, so that when I start a new production type, I have some surplus on materials. Nothing is worse than running out of a critical resource in the middle of production - especially if it's something like ammo, and your turrets run dry. =)
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void_null
Re: Learning a game with an excessive amount of misinformation on the web?
Uh, how do you have one inserter putting stuff into 3 chests in a row? That shouldn't be possible. Are you just manually putting stuff in those extra chests? I've made chains of chests to get more storage space, but they're always linked by inserters.
That said, decided to see how many labs I could support with yellow belts. Turns out, putting two science packs on one belt, they can support 7.5 packs per second (or 450 per minute, literally ten times my normal rate). That would require over 30 lanes of copper to support, so clearly that's not a good metric. Assuming all techs later on eat burners at a rate of 1 per 30 seconds, this means a single yellow belt could in theory support up to 225 labs. Can you imagine how long that line would be? It would dwarf the bases I normally build! My furnace lines are normally 24 furnaces long, and they each only take up 2 spaces compared to a lab's 3 to give an idea. Talk about a megabase.
Maybe I need to switch to lower spm's, and increment up to see how they have to be to get these stupid achievements. Maybe 11.25 spm (the spm that a single belt each of copper and iron could support) may not be such a bad idea. If its too low, I can move up to 22.5 (the rate that a pair of belts for each of copper and iron could support, not including steel of course). Of course, I would need effeciency modules again for such a set-up, unless maybe nuclear power would reduce pollution more. I don't know how to calculate that though. I know it would only stop pollution from those damned boilers, but efficiency modules lower pollution from EVERYTHING, including the innumerable miners, by 80%. Which is better? 80% less pollution from miners, or no pollution at all from boilers? Honestly, the nuclear power would probably take far less resources to make, so maybe that's an avenue worth pursuing.
That said, decided to see how many labs I could support with yellow belts. Turns out, putting two science packs on one belt, they can support 7.5 packs per second (or 450 per minute, literally ten times my normal rate). That would require over 30 lanes of copper to support, so clearly that's not a good metric. Assuming all techs later on eat burners at a rate of 1 per 30 seconds, this means a single yellow belt could in theory support up to 225 labs. Can you imagine how long that line would be? It would dwarf the bases I normally build! My furnace lines are normally 24 furnaces long, and they each only take up 2 spaces compared to a lab's 3 to give an idea. Talk about a megabase.
Maybe I need to switch to lower spm's, and increment up to see how they have to be to get these stupid achievements. Maybe 11.25 spm (the spm that a single belt each of copper and iron could support) may not be such a bad idea. If its too low, I can move up to 22.5 (the rate that a pair of belts for each of copper and iron could support, not including steel of course). Of course, I would need effeciency modules again for such a set-up, unless maybe nuclear power would reduce pollution more. I don't know how to calculate that though. I know it would only stop pollution from those damned boilers, but efficiency modules lower pollution from EVERYTHING, including the innumerable miners, by 80%. Which is better? 80% less pollution from miners, or no pollution at all from boilers? Honestly, the nuclear power would probably take far less resources to make, so maybe that's an avenue worth pursuing.